Candidates in the market are really interested about how they get notice. You need to know who to speak to and when to speak to them. People come to us to rely on that experience. Two of their careers. It’s actually essential that you go that experience and people have been there and done that. Acts of bonuses and notice periods.
Also saying became horribly complex. We only got the delay the land because we’re able to do that and have that type of conversation with them.
Welcome to microscope your Lens into real estate hiring and careers. Brought to you by Macdonald and company. Hello, I’m Peter Moore, I’m CEO of Macdonald and Company, the largest pure play real estate recruiter worldwide. I’m Roberta Barlow. I’m a director in the development and technical sector. I’ve been in real estate recruitment for 20 years. I’m working search and selection in the UK and European markets.
Hi, I’m Howard White. I’m a senior director in the investment funds team at Macdonald and Company. I have over 20 years recruitment experience both in the UK and Asia. So we’re talking today about senior level hiring into the real estate industry. And perhaps we can dispel some myths, talk about how we go about it, how we do it in a different way from maybe our competitors in the market.
Certainly, that’s probably quite all the snake oil out there, I think, and secrecy about how the process is going to be. And I think a lot of candidates in the market are really interested about how they get noticed. So there’s lots of topics we can talk about. So we’ve worked together for quite a long time and I realise that we have over 20 years.
It seems like going yesterday. And you know, I think we’re a different type of business to our competitors that they would very much a relationship business not only internally but externally as well. You know, we’ve been around 35 years, and our value is about the power of our networks and our our access to people. Would you agree?
Yeah, absolutely. I think that network is a key thing. We can use technology. We can use AI. Everybody use it in the market. However, network is paramount. You need to know who to speak to and when to speak to them. And it’s really important that you maintain that network throughout your career. Not only at a junior level, but also where can you wade through to a senior level as well?
Do you think it’s as important to know who not to call as it is who to call? Oh, absolutely. If you’re room, if you’re working on an assignment, it’s one of the key things when you talk to a client from the outset, the discussion is around what they’re trying to achieve by the hire. The personality, obviously, the job description, the responsibilities.
Yeah. But a key thing is to understand where to look for people who you can approach and absolutely who you are. Hands off with. Yeah. That’s a really that’s really, really important. Yeah. So the early stages of a search process are really important in terms of the job description, personal description, remuneration, budgets, top end. Yeah, absolutely. You do need to understand the parameters that you go to work within, albeit things may change a little through the process depending upon what candidates who are available.
Yeah. But you do need to have a really clear vision of what you’re trying to actually uncover within the market and within your network. To use a process that I use, which is a must have. Nice to have. Yeah, definitely. So must haves. Yeah, that’s that’s a criteria that you can quickly discover through most candidates. Yeah. The nice to have.
Yeah. Well we all know what they are. But if you can get all of them, then. Fantastic. But I think you’ve just got to prioritise. What’s the mo most important for? For the clients. Yeah. Roberta, how and what do you personally think your personal networks in the real estate industry are to delivering a really successful assignment for client?
Really important. It might be that somebody that I speak to at a senior level isn’t looking for a move or interest in a move, but within their network they will be able to refer another candidate to me that they would recommend. It’s really important that the the senior network that I maintain will actually answer the phone to call them as well.
That’s really rather leaving numerous messages. So it’s just having access to those people and it could be directly approaching them about a role, or it might be talking to them about their media network that they could refer to me and, and you know, quite often that works. Well. It provides a really interesting point to say is what what what percentage of candidates we think we place at a senior level that are passive, i.e. not actively looking, you know, out of the searches you’ve you’ve completed over the last five, ten years out, how many would you say?
I’m not actively looking in the market. Yeah. The strongest candidate typically not. They’re not active. That’s busy. They’re doing deals, they’ve got their head down and they’re worrying about their career that they need to sort of, experience approach them. And that should give them a differentiator, give them a new idea about what would be good for their career at a senior level.
Yeah, yeah. I do. You agree that the majority of successful candidates who place at senior level are passive? Yeah, I’ve got a wide network of senior level candidates that I know would be open to certain opportunities at certain points in their career. So there’s people that I’ve spoken to that I’ve placed in a of a more junior role.
And 50 years ago she had, had that and now a more senior level. Yeah. Oh, no. No, there’s certain opportunities that they’d be interested in. And it’s not always driven by. It’s not always driven by a salary or bonus. It could be driven by a specific client base. They want to pivot into a slightly different, paths, a market or it’s a trophy, trophy asset that they want to deliver or a really exciting region development opportunity.
Quite often when we’ve got retained assignments on our speech to the directors in the business, and get their take on who they know, who are their points of contacts elsewhere, that I might not be directly in, you know, speak to or my direct contacts, but through how do we sell for another director? I’ve got access to such a broad, wide network of candidates.
I’d be very surprised if other search firms have got that reach. So it brings us on to a really interesting point, doesn’t it, about how we go about senior level, higher search process, whatever terminology you end up using search, headhunting, CRM, recruitment, whatever. But how we do it differently. And I think one of the key, things for me is that you and me, if we take on an assignment, we’ll complete all the work ourselves.
Yeah. Using our network and rolling our sleeves up, how to how to traditional headhunting search businesses go by a senior mandate. They would use an outdated model of just a research team that wouldn’t be doing the work themselves and actually would actually have the personal relationships. Well, actually, we know the market where from where people come to us to rely on that experience to their careers.
It’s absolutely essential that you go, yeah, experience and people have been there and done that. HS brilliant tech is brilliant to assist or decision making may help with the long list, but actually the shortlist typically is someone that we would know recommend would probably of of peace to what what the client originally briefed us on. That’s right.
It’s about knowledge and creativity. You’re right. At the end of the day, anyone can create a long list. You know, again, I, there’s a lot of data out and they all my son could sit and create a, you know, head of development long list for a London based developer using AI in three minutes. But as we’ve said, you know, the majority of successful accounts replies are passive candidates.
Yeah. You know, they’re not going out there looking. And it’s it’s about the creative team value we had through that really clever idea. Really clever idea I think is understanding from my perspective on the development side of things, projects that people have actually delivered, clients that they’ve worked for, the delivery method that they’ve used, and an understanding of how far through a process that development director takes.
A project is really key key thing to understand. Yeah. So and and do you, do you, do you delve deeper and find out how their co-workers on those projects have dealt with them and what they think of them on those projects where they actually did deliver that work? They say that that they were responsible for? Yeah, quite often I will know the people that have worked on the same development and have spoken to them in the past.
So yeah, it’s it’s quite interesting to understand market perception, of various different candidates as well, because obviously it’s important it’s important that people understand that, that they are their own personal all it is important to maintain in a positive way. So do we. Do we think real estate is more personality credibility perception led than any other profession out there?
It’s difficult to say that because I’ve worked in real estate for so long, I haven’t got a direct comparator, but it’s certainly important for people to make themselves visible. If they want to progress their career in the market, they need to be visible to everybody. They need to be at events, they need to be keynote speakers. They need to be, press releases for their for their business.
You know, that’s the the people’s in this house is it ultimately is absolute absolutely relationship led businesses. And that you do deals with people that you know and you like and you respect me trust and you trust. Trust is is a big thing. That’s right. You know, real estate is much more personality credibility reputation that than other industries.
If you’re a lawyer, you know, it’s the cases you’ve won and the, you know, the case law that you’ve you’ve, established for us, it’s about who you know and the ability to pick up the phone to deal. You know, for investors and developers, you know, the police are in often I get deals how I’m often asked by candidates how head-hunters go about finding people for roles and how they make themselves visible for that once in a lifetime role that they just cannot miss.
What what sort of vice have you got two senior candidates working in the market who certainly are looking, but do not want to miss that once in a lifetime role? What do you think they should be doing? I think it’s about building relationship with the recruiter. There’s independent advice and experience advice to them for their career. So having that knowledge with the recruiter is actually key.
So you can actually understand what your shared goals are, what your vision might be for your next move, and if it’s if that’s realistic and if that works, a lighter role is to a pair. You know, when when should be taught. What is it about that move that you want. So there’s the people you’ve been talking to for 20 plus years that you might not have placed, but I still looking for that once in a lifetime role is essentially yes.
No. It’s a good people are probably busy and actually the tenure of the of that organisation and they’re happy in that role. But actually that next move is actually very difficult. Yeah. So again you go to someone with experience credibility to understand what that could look like. Yeah, I mean one of the key ways to access the passive candidate market, is old school traditional headhunting is, you know, to talk to the, the, the kind of that basic, you know, talk to job descriptions, talk about where they’ve got the clever ideas often.
Do you do that, Roberto? Oh, quite often. I’ve, I’ve not got, I don’t think there’s a time when I’ve been working on an assignment when I’ve not spoken to somebody within my network. And asked if they’ve got any referrals. I’ve run the role by them initially, and then it’s not the right time for them.
And then, you know, I’ve been really quite open and ask them who they might recommend in the market. The or even somebody who’s, you know, with their media network that might well be interested or suitable for that role. But one thing that, candidates should do and should make a note of is to make themselves visible in the real estate market themselves.
So that’s by going to networking events, speaking at events, perhaps making sure that their own personal PR, they’ve had a think about how they can promote themselves within their own organisation. So it’s like thought leadership press article, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because then they will be visible to clients that are potentially looking to hire at their level, all of that next step for them.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. So one of the one of the real values that we have acting as a consultant, third party advisor in search of this nature is that we have the ability to change misconceptions and preconceptions about parties. How often do you ring ring them up and speak to them and, and change their mind about that, that that the perception misconception about a client or role that happens a lot.
And that’s again why they come to us for our experience. And we can give them that different dynamic or different point of view of a particular clients. Yeah. But again, if we build that relationship with that person, so they trust us in our commercial judgement to say, actually, we advise you to go and see them go and have coffee with them, because at the very least, it’s going to build that network to be a joint venture partner.
It could be a, a company they do a deal with in the future. So actually that personal development of, of that network is important as well. It’s not just about saying I don’t have work for them. That’s right. It’s not that binary. And and we have that ability to to ring about that and change their mind and give them up to date information.
Yeah. They can make an informed decision then rather than something that might be, a perception that might have been created quite a while ago because we should be brand ambassador for our clients and understand their vision and their values and what their business plan is moving forward for the next 12, 18 months, five years. So with that, you know, there may be change being created within that business, which might align well with, a certain candidate’s ideals for their new role.
I think. I think one of the hardest and most complex part of putting together a senior hire is ultimately the negotiation of of terms and remuneration, because they could become really, really complex. It kind of when the sale tips involved and different types of bonus mechanisms. Yeah. That’s right. And if a client were to negotiate and try to create that direct with a candidate, it can go horribly wrong because there’s no one in the middle to maintain that relationship.
So we we have a unique position in the sense that we can be very honest with the client, very honest with the candidate. And if we think there’s grounds to bring them together, we can bring them together whilst maintaining their mutual relationship for the future. Yeah, absolutely. I think it just diffuses what could be a difficult conversation. If initially their ideas about remuneration don’t align with their to be able to buffer that, but also to talk openly with client and candidly about how we can bring their alignment or make it aligned for them both.
So everybody’s happy. I mean, I recently had an offer, a financial offer made to a candidate for, a CEO role of a, a new development and the financial aspects probably covered four pages from our tips to bonus to retention, bonus to short term incentives to base salary to and buyouts of bonuses and notice periods. Also saying became horribly complex.
Yeah. And what happened was, is the kind that became very focus on what he was going to earn in one year. And actually it was a sort of 3 or 4 year program. And we only got the two right along because we’re able to do that and have that type of conversation with them. So with senior hires, Howard, how how important is money from total remuneration?
Do you find it is important to consideration. But essentially and the reason for that move is probably team to culture down to the leadership team that might be going to the growth. So money is important, but certainly not the only driving factor in that, in that position. So if money what it was evidently the most important factor, what alarm bells would ring without, we worry that they are thinking more short term.
Yeah. What is what is it about this move? They want a medium to long term career move. And there’s just about financials. It probably mean you’re not allied. Yeah that’s right. And you can you can put in place longer term incentive plans etcetera to to reward that person but ultimately need to have probably a shared values that shared goals drivers.
Yeah. To make that move successful. Why do people most people make a move. Is it the it’s so it’s not principally because of money but money is important right. And that’s absolutely right. The remuneration has got to be right. And I always say to clients that generally candidates don’t move unless they’re paid somewhere around 15% plus more than they’re currently on.
But I’ve certainly move candidates on, on less remuneration. Because, you know, in the in, in terms the hierarchy of needs and what people are looking for, if, you know, if the role is with the right organisation, with the right investment in the right future, and it’s exciting and fast paced and they’re moving from somewhere that’s moribund, doesn’t have investment.
It’s pretty much a no brainer, isn’t it? Yeah. Recently I’ve placed somebody in a senior level role and they’ve moved for what I would say is probably parity for the first couple to 18 month. But long term that often happens. Right. Yeah. They’ve got a great incentive program. It’s the right business. They’ve got the right growth plan in place.
So yeah for them it was it was an easy move. So when running a senior mandate how often are clients asking you to consider internal applications and benchmarking against the rest of the market? I would say that’s quite often low cost to do that for various different reasons. And but what they will do is go through the same process as other candidates that are out in the market, which there is a benefit from having internal candidates.
Obviously, historically, they’ve got, you know, knowledge about the client. They’re likely to know all of the senior leadership team values are aligned, etcetera. But what they don’t bring is new ideas. What they don’t bring may be, a slight nuance in skillset. What do you think? How do I say that’s a really good point. Yeah. They’re not bringing additional new skills from other organisations.
And also it depends on what type of growth phase that the company’s at as well, with what fresh ideas or what do they want from these current existing relationships with with joint partners or capital partners? What do you actually need to bring in new ideas with that? Yeah, it may be that somebody needs somebody with a certain skill set because they’re setting up a new platform as an example or they’re going into a slightly different sector that they haven’t got the internal capacity to deal with that.
So yeah, I think it’s really important for us to understand from a client perspective, you know, what is the aim of the role and what internal client candidates are need to, be included and making sure that they go through the same process as a company. We would undertake really scientific benchmarking, remuneration benchmarking and back to one company for the past 20 plus years of undertaking the global benchmark rate, a state salary survey.
So we’re able to draw on really, really complex and informative data sets. And the data set for us, the senior kind of market global suggests that most high as a director or above me for 22% plus I think in the UK it’s probably 15, ten, 15%. I think probably in the US. In other markets it might be more.
We recently completed a, a CEO hire from major Asia developer that was the total remuneration package was 1.7 million USD. And that and that was a 28% increase on on that candidate’s previous remuneration, one of the one of our ups, if they could be more than one, is the power of our network and our connections that, you know, friends of you’ve developed over the last 20 or 25 years, right?
That’s key is the depth of that relationship as well. So your access to passive candidates in the range of people across the market, you’ve got to utilise that experience. Yeah. And those relationships. Yeah. And I think we’re able to demonstrate, a quite a long list of successful placements year in, year out. And that’s during 35 years of being, being around.
Yeah. I mean, and we, you know, we, we, we operate globe globally from the Bahamas to Australia to to Asia to Vietnam to Scotland. Yeah. All using the same database. Exactly. But the database is only one thing is that, you know, that that that’s the our foundation data is all our foundation. But our secret sauce is our personal relationships and our ability to access passive candidates when we need them.
Yeah. And and gain and find out that really critical bit of information that we can’t find when we’re negotiating as a group, somewhere around 7 million USD of salaries into real estate industry every month, month in, month out. And we have done for the past 30 but 30 plus years from, you know, the US to the UK to Asia, the global real estate industry probably has become slightly less mobile than it was when you were in Hong Kong.
When there’s quite a big inflow of Western talent into, into Asia. But but certainly one of one of our unique selling points, I think, is the ability for clients to access international candidates with really unique skill sets to come to the UK or come to other geographies that we operate in to compliment shortlists. If you’re exploring your next leadership hire, want to learn how we can support you?
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